Pickpocketing: questions and opinions

[makelovelikewar]

I have several questions about pickpocketing and would like to hear Team and player opinions.

1. How do you know if you've been pickpocketed? Is stuff just missing? (How can you tell if it was stolen or if it got accidentally dropped from too much in your inventory, etc? Is there a game engine response?)

2. Is there anyway to identify the pickpocket?

3. Without naming names (unless you wish to and won't hurt another player), has anyone ever played a pickpocket or known a player who has? Why this RP choice?

4. Are there any examples people could share where pickpocketing was a positive tool? (Progressing a DM plot, etc.)

5. Does Arkaz have rules for pickpockets? If not, should we?

And since I'm asking for opinions, here's mine: I don't like pickpocketing. To my knowledge, I have never been pickpocketed, but I know a few who have and they were NOT happy IC or OOC (mostly OOC, IMO). I'm sure I wouldn't be happy if I was pickpocketed. In fact, I'd be positively sick if certain items were stolen. No matter how IC for the thief, the affected player/character is NOT happy that they were stolen from with no chance of defending themselves. Some items are hard (if not impossible) to replace.

Personally, I don't see any RP value in pickpocketing (any examples to prove otherwise?). It seems to me that a player doesn't even know their character has been pickpocketed until they check inventory and find valuables gone. How is this fun? Yes, it enriches the thief but at the expense of pissing off other players OOC as well as characters IC. I don't consider that an equitable trade-off.

I look forward to reading others' opinions. Thanks!

*gets off soap box and points to it* Who's next?

[corwink]

I've played lots of rogues before in NWN and pnp and I have never pickpocketed a pc. If I was going to on the off chance, i would to do the same as I would with cvc, I would send them a tell letting them know my intentions and if it was ok with them. If not then I would not pickpocket them. If they were ok with it I would do it, and if successful I would let them know what was taken and if it was something important to them, i would "pick it up from the ground" and give it back to them saying it fell out of their pocket or some other excuse. I know i have lots of stuff that some may find meaningless but are actual pretty precious to my character and me and i would not want to lose them to a pickpocket.

here's another question;

If an item is in a bag in your inventory, can it be picked or does it have to be in your inventory but not in a container?

[Daemona]

Good questions and answers.

I have never taken the skill for any character but have experienced it a few times. First of all your spot has to beat their hide skills to know you have been pickpocketed. A message will appear in the right/combat window that Character X tried to steal from you. With a good pickpocket you will never know though. I will let the team decide how much of the information in the window is known to the character though.

In most instances I do not like it at all and putting things in a bag is no guarantee they will not be stolen.

As was stated above some mundane items can hold a lot of sentimental value to a character. It could be a masterwork dagger given to them by someone special when the character first started or an engagement ring. Those items would upset most people more than a ring of the dryad.

But the question was asked about a positive spin on pickpocket. A character Dae knows well on Avlis has the skill. The character will pickpocket you and then tell you that you have a hole in your purse or bag and this or that fell out. That is a harmless kind of pickpocket and I find it entertaining. Along the lines of is my hide better than your spot?

There are however certain things that should never be taken and kept. Room keys and other plot items among them. Or non plot items that are a DM reward. Sonja has a set of boots that meet this description and would be very upset to have someone steal them off her feet or loot them from her. Her sword is the same way but not a reward.

If something like this ends up missing then at least give the person the opportunity to get it back via RP.

I think the key here is consideration for the OOC as well as the IC feelings of the player and character.

[SinbadSam]

I do not care for the PP skill, it has too many bugs due to NWN game engine issues.

None of my rogues have ever taken PP as a skill, Nor will they.

I have been PPed on Avlis, most of it was not in accordance with Rules on PPing.

One attempt, my sorceress PC had her PseudoDragon Familiar summoned. When the rogue attempted to PP her the familiar blocked him from getting to her, and looked at him strangely. It was not until after we had parted, that I realized what he had tried, if I had figured it out, while he was there, he would have received a fireball and lightening bolt sandwich. With multiple Magic Missile garnish.

PPing in game just causes too many issues/abuses.

If you say it is IC for you then, WHEN you get caught, then it will IC for you to be Dry Looted. Ask what happens to Modern Day Pickpockets when they are caught by their victims.

[Korennya]

I also have a rogue and choose not to invenst in PIck pocket. The skill is also not a simple spot vs hide check. While yes the offfending rogue needs to maintain a hide/ms higher than your spot/listen to avoid being seen this is not the entirety to it. My character on avlis can achieve a hide right now of just under 100. She could walk up to your character with a 15 spot and try to pickpocket you. I put only one point in PP and the other points she gets are from her dex bonus so.. the skill total is quite low, think low teens. She has a fairly good chance of failing against you. I dont know the exact numbers but there is a DC system in place as well.. I belive normal un-hostile monters have a dc of 20, while hostile monsters have a dc of 30. Per the rules on avlis, and nuvar might differ from these.. any rogue attempting to PP another PC MUST set HOSTILE before the PP. This is both to raise the DC on the target PC and to allow the game engine to auto react to the rogue if the PP is detected.

I also know, from trying to PP monsters with such a low PP score, that having an uber hide/ms score will not prevent you from being revealed to the target if the PP attempt fails. Steaht is automatically broken on a fail and the offending Rogue is in plain sight. THere seems to be also three levels of PP. 1.. failure, and what i said above happens, non-hostile NPC will now be hostile to you. 2. The Rogue barely manages to beat teh DC, the target is sent a server message that X item was taken. 3. The rogue beats teh DC easy and you have no clue anything happened.

SO.. the rogue has to make two checks to steal from you.. the base DC check vs. pickpocket, then a check of the targets spot vs, rogue PP skill. Hide/ms only plays apart here inleting your character get close enough to attempt the PP.

[Daemona]

Korennya, that was a beautiful explaniation and answered a question I neglected to ask on setting to hostile.

[NightsMistress]

I have a character that developed some pick pocketing skill as it was the only way to get certain crafting items from npcs needed without resorting to murder. Picking pockets should only be done for RP reasons and preferably with a DM present. The avlis rule on setting to hostile is a good one I think, albeit metagamers will use this as an excuse to auto identify the theif.

[makelovelikewar]

SinbadSam

One attempt, my sorceress PC had her PseudoDragon Familiar summoned. When the rogue attempted to PP her the familiar blocked him from getting to her, and looked at him strangely. It was not until after we had parted, that I realized what he had tried, if I had figured it out, while he was there, he would have received a fireball and lightening bolt sandwich. With multiple Magic Missile garnish.

Does this mean pseudo dragon familiars are proof against pickpockets?

Were you possessing your familiar and saw the rogue or did the familiar act on its own?

[SinbadSam]

That I do not know. I was not possessing my familiar. It is the first and only time he has done that. It was via a tell from the player that told me what he had tried to do.

[makelovelikewar]

So you were not "turned hostile" by the player who was attempting the pickpocketing? And your familiar still responded?

(Also, sounds like "forgetting" to turn a victim hostile seems like a big problem that is happening a lot.)