Alignment

[Weedler]

But on a more serious note...

Alignment 'discussions' (and i'll use the term lightly) often have a tendancy to become very heated, very quickly, when more often than not, the people arguing are actually saying exactly the same thing.

In NWN, there isn't the flexibility to try to outline black and white rulings on alignment, apart from what should be blatently obvious conflictions - CE and LG, LE and CG etc. In these examples, the PC's are inevitably going to come to blows shortly after straying from polite, fireside conversation (and by that, I mean basic introductions). This doesn't mean they have to go for each others throats of course - CvC comes in many guises, including that of a sharp wit and tongue.

As for Terror's statement, I disagree. I play my characters in the method/manner they need to be played. Not by an item whose meaning or definition is not defined.

I'm afraid i'd side with Terror on this one. It personally annoys the hell out of me if I see Good aligned PC's repeatedly using harm or other negative energy spells, or evil PC's running round with Celestial or naturally good creatures from the high level summons or Gate spell. They may have control over it during the duration of the spell, but that doesn't mean to say the summon wouldn't remember them and hunt them down to ensure they didn't do it to anyone else, if not for the restriction of game mechanics.

People can rule lawyer all they want, but it comes down to the World Creators/DM team makes the final decision on how alignment works, <snip>. Their world, their rules.

This is the be-all and end-all of the matter. The issue will vary world to world, but I can promise you that 99% of the time, if a team member wants to make any serious change to a player's alignment for any reason, then it will go through a full discussion with the rest of the team first. This removes most aspects of skewed judgement due to being the result of multiple perceptions.

If a team doesn't think that your playing your alignment correctly, then they'll talk to you accordingly to establish if there's a reason for certain actions they may not be aware of. If they still believe that something is wrong, then you either have the chance to adjust your playing style accordingly, or to play through it and see where the new route may take you (which, from personal experience, can be a ~lot~ of fun).

Anyway, that's my rather rambly $0.2

[Coyoterex]

I will play nice. I was not planning on starting a huge alignment debate.

Thought it might be fun, though, to hear other people's thoughts on the alignment of fictional characters like those listed in the article.

[makelovelikewar]

My opinion, take or ignore for what it's worth. Alignment is an RP guideline and the DMs/Team will warn you or adjust you if you stray. If you're talking from a religious standpoint, I am more interested in seeing people adhere to the deity's tenets rather than whether the god is CN or LG.

For example CG Avani is a nature god with the role of guardian and will protect weaker creatures. LE Jaeger is also a nature god but doesn't care about the trees or weak creatures, etc, unless those like Dertmore or Pelagia take offense. Jaeger focuses on strength and discipline.

No matter alignment or divine tenets, no goody PC is going to attack an evil PC on sight. Not unless they are interested in being arrested or banned from an area. There are aspects of civilization that everyone must attend to or risk the consequences. And, bluntly, the majority of the Arkaz gods are not so militant as to demand KoS.

Characters are 3D and should be made up of more than their stats and alignment. Because of this, we should see variants which--if they vary too strongly--may be dealt with via DM love.

Interestingly enough, per Darkfire, Dameon' doesn't believe he is evil. He feels "tough love" is needed for the weak to grow strong. Dameon' feels it's people like the Cha'rethites who are evil since they encourage weakness since they give handouts. Also Dameon has shown a tender or helpful side on more than one occasion. Yet I don't think anyone would argue that Dameon' is an excellent example of CE with perhaps forays into NE. (Please correct me if I'm wrong on any point, Darkfire!)

So, IMO, RP your character as you see fit, but be aware that the Team may have a different view of your RP choices. In the end, it is the Team who are the gods/powers and they have the final say.

[SinbadSam]

As a player who has a character that is trying/attempting to follow Jaeger, I see him more 3d than the 2d you describe.

FYI note Jaeger is N/E not L/E, yes his worshipers can be L/E but he is not.

Jaeger cares about strength but not just physical strength, mental strength he also values ie cunning and wisdom. He cares about things that are strong enough to survive, everything else is to be forgotten.

But Jaeger does have some interesting quirks/twists. Females and offspring are off limits, for hunting or being prey. Wanton killing of those two groups, does not gain favor in Jaeger's eyes.

Jaeger is the Punisher of the Two Greater Deities on Arkaz, not even the God of the Dead can call a stop to a BLOOD HUNT. And yes my character called for a BLOOD HUNT for the actions of two other characters. But due to IG issues, it did not take place.

There was a Ranger avatar of Jaeger once heard and seen around the campfire, it was a interesting conversation. Thanks Jaeger.

As for some excellent examples of how the Arkaz Team views alignment, just go thru the listings of the deities here. Jaeger's does not fit the Wiki def of NE.

As for a the casting of spells,,,I do not get my knickers into a twist over it. Most of mine that can summon or cast those types of spells are less restricted in their point of views.

[makelovelikewar]

My apologies for incorrectly posting Jaeger's alignment. I am at work and typing on a break. I'm glad you do see Jaeger as 3D. I had the pleasure of creating Jaeger, Avani, and Pelagia for the Arkaz pantheon.

[makelovelikewar]

But Jaeger does have some interesting quirks/twists. Females and offspring are off limits, for hunting or being prey.

Quick clarification:

His followers are forbidden to kill children or the pregnant. To honor Jaeger, a sacrifice must have posed an actual threat to the individual performing the sacrifice.

Jaeger doesn't forbid the killing of females in general, just females who are pregnant. The concept behind this is that a gravid female is not at her fighting best and, of course, juveniles have not reached their full potential. Followers of Jaeger should be too proud and disciplined to stoop to hunting less than prime opponents. Of course, that doesn't mean a follower of Jaeger is required to protect a pregnant female or juveniles either.

Sorry to digress from the alignment thread. Anyone else want to share their views on alignment?

[Akai]

$.02:

I think you have a very good point in that the deities' alignments represent the creating DMs' view of those alignments, so if you choose a deity of your alignment and follow that deity's tenets, you should in theory never have to worry about whether you're playing your alignment "right".

For my part, I have always chosen a starting alignment based on my character concept, and then pretty much forgotten about alignment, figuring that if the DM's think I'm playing a different alignment than the one on the character sheet, they'll go ahead and adjust it for me. I don't play an alignment, I play a character, and I've never had any personal mechanics troubles with alignments (although Soleis did get within a couple Lawful points of not being able to advance farther as a bard, once..