Corwin

[Ronan]

I know I'm part of the problem with your case, Rudiki, so I'll speak on my behalf. I don't ever tell others not to invite you.

It takes effort to drag people along. It takes even more effort for me to find a way to drag along a PC my character doesn't get along with. It takes even, even more effort to find some excuse to make my character want an individual along that they know doesn't want to even see them.

I have tried to continue to involve people that clearly hate my character, but if it is going to take me 30 minutes each time for them to pack up and say 'no' I may as well give up trying after a while. An example is when we went to Arvia on a little trip. I tried so hard to get everyone to go, and... after a while, I had to give up and just went.

[terryrayc]

as a rule DM's will never exclude a player unless there is a good reason. The good reason list isn't very long but there are some valid reasons. I'll list a few here


1) A player requested a specific event for something (PRC, Item request, etc)
2) A guild asks their sponser to run a guild event
3) DM's are runing either a low level or high level event and they know you are either way too high a level or way to low.
4) You join while the event mostly complete or too far in to easily get you involved.
5) IC reasons (For example, you are a known Evil player and the event is taking place in the temple of Olryn)

Those are just a VERY few but NOT all of the reasons and I'll touch on them.

#1 - sometimes for IC reasons there things a player must do alone. We try and allow these personal events when time permits and they make IC sense.
#2 - Same as #1
#3 - this one is hard to understand and explain but I'll try. Sometimes we want to help new players or low level players so we run events geared to them at their levels. Having a Epic sow up when a bunch of level 5's are questing throws the entire balance off. Now that's not to say we might not find something for you to do but sometimes it's just not doable.
#4 - If you missed the first 2 hours of a 3 hour event that is runing at a VERY fast pace, the DM might not have time to try and include you. Now if you know what's going on and want to join you can however if it would take too long to get you up to speed or if it would kill the pace of the event the DM might ask you to sit this one out.
#5 - Let's say last night you told everyone you were the High Priest of the Evil god Booboo and I have a scheduled event with some followers of the Good god Hugs & Kisses that involves a visit by the Holy Avatar of goodness....you might be excluded because it makes no IC sense for you to be there....you'd probably be KOS in H&K's temple.
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Now that being said. If you feel a DM is excluding you for personal reasons or just because they don't like you or for no reason at all, send me a PM with the date, time and DM if known and I'll look into it. My rule is simple, we will try and allow everyone who wants to play here, play here and have fun. While that's not always possible do to a large number of reasons, a player shouldn't feel like they are being forced out of play for no good reason.

I hope that helps you some.

[3DWarrior]

I will restrain myself from dipping into the vast bucket of my personal experiences concerning favoritism as this would become a mudslinging and otherwise ugly discussion. However, I will add a constructive comment or two.

1. If you take In Character steps to avoid certain PCs who happen to be involved in certain plots, this lowers your chances of being ICly invited to that plot.

2. If, during an event you are not a part of, you do not ask the Dm Out of Character to be allowed to join, you cannot call it a clear-cut example of favoritism. Yes, the Dm didn't go out of their way to include you. No, the Dm did not go out of their way to exclude you as they never blatantly said, "No, you can't be involved."

Kali: I agree with you that some players have odd playtimes, and this can result in the appearance of favoritism. I've often wondered, when looking at a server list, why certain Dms are consistently online with certain players; your explanation makes sense.

[soulkey357]

Hi love.... truly sorry to hear you are leaving - but what the heck is going on with Arkaz?

Seems seem kinda cliquey and lopsided with games only being played for certain players now? How come events that have been planed get yanked?

This is not the Arkaz I cam e to play on, and it is a shame to see things changing, and not for the better.

I know this is not your concern now Mark, I'm just sad this is turning into anther Hala with the 'my ball, my game' attitude.

Love ya..and Melissa....hope I'm wrong and I can still see you and old friends like Lexy in IG to play sometime.

I realize this was addressed to Corwin but as it was made public I will respond. First of all please see Terry’s post on this topic. I have seen from a backstage view at least one example of each of his points. Please, PLEASE do not assume if you are not aware of the situation. I have seen too many cases of assumptions. In many of these cases people tend to complain in private without addressing the issue which tends to end with hurt feelings. It has always been mine and Corwink’s personal policy to never exclude anyone. If this was unclear to anyone my apologies but it is also Arkaz’s policy not to exclude anyone. Bear in mind Terry’s post where there are IC reasons for a pc not to attend. If any player has an issue about a dm please pm me or Terry. If it is pertaining to me please pm Terry. I believe in the saying you cannot fix what you do not know is broken. Please also see the rants category I do not ever read them please keep this in mind as it is where the pc’s can go and complain.
Now in your case Redda When I DM’d I tended not to invite you because I know OOC you PREFFER not to join in dm events. If this has changed please let me and the other DM’s know.
All players are welcome on Arkaz. It has been my experience that even those not normally welcomed elsewhere are welcomed here. If you feel unwelcome please pm me. If you feel unwelcome please come back and re-experience Arkaz.
As for it being lop-sided Yes I think there are more evil or neutral characters then before but that is up to those who play.
If there is anything I can do to help please let me know.
Soulkey

[Rudiki]

Okay. I knew these were the sorts of responses I'd be getting, even though I tried to explain that they weren't relevant by pointing out in my original message that I wasn't talking about them. i'll try to explain myself in more detail.

First, the fact that Lexy doesn't like Ronan DOES NOT mean I don't like Ronan's player, or that I think Ronan's player or Ronan ought to go out of their way to include me or Lexy in things. That is NOT what I am saying. Nor do I believe or suspect that Ronan's player has ever told anyone not to invite me. I do not wish or expect Ronan's player to make any effort whatsoever to find a way to drag Lexy along, nor do I want Ronan's player to compromise the character and act out of character for my sake.

I am PERFECTLY FINE with Lexy not being able to participate in most events that Ronan is invloved in. I brought that on myself. I made that decision for my character, it is an IC decision, and I am perfectly comfortable abiding by it. I am NOT complaining about this. The same goes for Brynja and anyone else Lexy doesn't like.

The trip to Arvia that was mentioned, like many other such incidents, is not something I had a problem with. I'm not talking about those. I was invited IC, I said no thanks IC, done deal, no problem. The incidents that have made me feel unwelcome were different. People should not feel as if they need to go out of their way to try to accomodate me, nor should they think I'm upset when I choose not to be involved in an event.

That was a good post, Terry; thanks. The incidents I've felt bad about don't seem to fit into any of those very reasonable categories. I don't know why this is happening. Knowing the generally high quality of the Arkaz DMs I suspect is is stemming from misunderstandings related to the stuff I've mentioned above.

Regarding favoritism. I'm not accusing anyone of favoritism. I do think that favoritism is not nearly as prevalent as people think it is, by a long shot. A lot of innocent things can give the false impression of favoritism. I am not pointing at anyone and saying that person is getting special treatment. There's a reason I didn't use the word favoritism. I'm not talking about favoritism.

"If you take In Character steps to avoid certain PCs who happen to be involved in certain plots, this lowers your chances of being ICly invited to that plot." As I said above, this is fine with me, and it isn't what I'm worried about.

"If, during an event you are not a part of, you do not ask the Dm Out of Character to be allowed to join, you cannot call it a clear-cut example of favoritism." Again, I've not called anything a clear-cut example of favoritism (or a clear-cut example of anything). I'm not talking about favoritism. And again, I'm talking about situations which were really much harder to explain away than the one you mention here. I wouldn't be finally going to the trouble to write about this, which I don't enjoy doing at all, if all that was happening was that I expected to be immediately invited to an event in progress whenever I show up on the server, and was incensed when I wasn't. That ain't the case.

That being said, I don't think players ought to be responsible for asking to be involved in events, or inviting themselves to events; I think it's the responsibility of the DM to invite and include them. I'm not talking here about events already in progress. I'm talking about events that are about to happen. I don't think only the people with chutzpah ought to have the opportunity to participate. DMs should definitely go out of their way to invite (note I say invite, not necessarily include; players are free to decline, and if they do, the DM has no obligation to bend over backward to get them to play) all players to open events, whether announced beforehand, or unannounced. That's their job.

And finally, yet again, the fact that I've had some less than perfect experiences here DOES NOT mean that I think the game is a bad game. It's not. I love many of the players and DMs here. The only reason I mention what I have is so that it can be corrected, and the only reason I feel confident to say it is that I know the people involved want the game to be the best that it can be, and care whether or not everyone is having fun, and will take it seriously when someone isn't.

Again, thanks for listening.

[Akai]

2. If, during an event you are not a part of, you do not ask the Dm Out of Character to be allowed to join, you cannot call it a clear-cut example of favoritism. Yes, the Dm didn't go out of their way to include you. No, the Dm did not go out of their way to exclude you as they never blatantly said, "No, you can't be involved."

Regarding posted events, I agree. However, if a player is online and does not know an event is planned or being run, that player cannot reasonably be expected to send a tell asking to join the event that he doesn't know is happening. If that player later finds out that an event was run while he was available; that the DM made an effort to include others but that no effort was made to include him, that player may reasonably feel excluded; and if none of Terryrayc's good reasons seem to apply, that player may reasonably conclude that the DM showed favoritism.

[Ronan]

Regarding posted events, I agree. However, if a player is online and does not know an event is planned or being run, that player cannot reasonably be expected to send a tell asking to join the event that he doesn't know is happening. If that player later finds out that an event was run while he was available; that the DM made an effort to include others but that no effort was made to include him, that player may reasonably feel excluded; and if none of Terryrayc's good reasons seem to apply, that player may reasonably conclude that the DM showed favoritism.

Just to be clear. I do not think this is the case in recent events. If it is believed this is the case, I recommend you and Rudiki go to Terry and talk to him about the specific case. The team can sort out what's going on behind the scenes and talk to the players involved.

I have learned to ask a DM when I see a DM on and I can't find people in public spots like the fire (though I check at the fire first! )

[luminance]

On a few occasions, I've only gotten into plots by sending something to /dm to ask if there was any way I could join. Likewise, sometimes I've been online and been unable to find anyone to play with, at which point I either park my character at the fire and go play minesweeper until somebody shows up, or PM someone and ask if everyone is hanging out somewhere.

Arkaz is a VERY VERY VERY friendly server in my experience, and if you simply ask, you WILL be included 99% of the time. I think I've only had to say I can't meet people on two or three occasions, usually when my character was hiding somewhere weird, doing something for a PrC plot, or doing something excruciatingly boring like tailoring. And you know, a few of those times, people have managed to find me ANYWAY, and I RPed with them.

I'm frankly rather offended to see this kind of thing said, because I know that I personally get very excited about seeing new people on Arkaz and I try my hardest to be especially welcoming of them, even if I have to stretch a bit ICly.

If you want to be involved, you ~MUST~ put some effort in yourself. Like anything else, everyone involved needs to make an effort to work together, not just the DM/locals/high level characters/ebulzzz/whatever.

If anyone has a particular problem with a particular person, then IMO, you need to talk to them personally, or this situation will never improve for anyone.

[Kali]

When each of us sits down and logs into the server, we do so to have fun. I would say that almost always we want to have fun with someone else. Now, fun can be different things sometimes. There have been times Brynja and Alexis have met up pretty much to have an argument. Brynja went off and brooded, Alexis ran to his room for a cry, but both players sure had a lot of fun.

So, here is what I think…

Playing.
I well understand that my characters can be tricky to include in what ever is going on and that is fine. Two of my characters do things that can ostracise them from others and one of my characters has the potential to dominate a combat encounter quite dramatically. I would never EVER dream of trying to get in on something to do with the Celestial Order or Aranel on Hala, unless I was asked to play the villan.

If you see me log in (Brynja, Malik, Morgan, Grovel –if you guys are lucky Grovel will visit ) I am always open to a tell letting me know where there is fun to be had. In return, I will do the same for you when I see you log in. Even if it is a tell saying sorry but a bunch of characters are busy doing secret stuff or way down a dungeon, that’s fine.
I tend not to send tells to players or on the DM channel asking for inclusion though. While I don’t mind it myself I just don’t feel comfortable doing it to others, especially DMs.

DMing.
I don’t DM on Arkaz (yet!) but I can give some insight as to what it is like to DM and how I personally find it.
When I DM I like to take the role of a story teller, and you can’t tell a good story without characters. I try to draw characters into my events, especially if I see they are alone. Generally I send a tell and offer a DM jump. I always appreciate it as a player, so as a DM I try to do what I like done for me.

I DM for the people I see logged on, so if you see the same DM running things for the same characters all the time, it’s a safe bet that they are the players who are always on in that DMs times. I also run stuff for players that I think make an effort and for the guild that I am DM sponsor for. In both cases I consider it up to the characters involved to invite others along.
I do think that DMs have a right not to DM for someone they aren’t comfortable with. DMs need to be having fun too.

If you think you would like some DM attention, but aren’t comfortable approaching a specific DM, send a PM to the Arkaz team (is there an account?) with a description and back ground of your PC and some goals that you would like to complete. I read the ones that get sent to the Hala team and do try and think of ways to work them into my stories and I bet the Arkaz DMs would do the same.


I think that is about all I have to say on this really, except to say that if you aren’t having fun, and you see one of my characters on, send me a tell

[Akai]

While we're on the subject...

I do very much approve of Arkaz' policy of trying to include everyone in anything. I have heard it argued that, just as a player has no obligation to play with others he dislikes, a DM has no obligation to DM for players he dislikes; but IMO a DM who wants to pick & choose his players ought to be DM'ing in a private game, not a public one.

Last time I was seriously involved in an Arkaz plot, the Avariel, I was WAY impressed by both the DMs' and Rune's efforts to include everyone.

I remember Samhaim's plots fondly from Hala, and look forward to being part of his events again! He also impresses me as being very good at including everyone.

I haven't been in as many of Avani's events as I would like, but from what little I have seen, she is extraordinarily good at getting everyone involved and challenging both low and high level characters simultaneously!

And while I'm throwing out the superlatives, I don't think I've ever seen another player as good as Gaklah's at including other players in dungeon crawls, and keeping track to see that no one is left.

And of course no one compares to Lexy in including other characters in conversation!